Good Afternoon Teams,
On the 17th I asked for your input about what to call the events that evolve from the Michigan District Pilot and you were good enough to share your opinions. The term still hasn’t been finalized (I’ll let you know when it is.), but whenever it is discussed around here I can say “the teams tell me they prefer districts”.
Now I have another question for you. (Two actually, but to keep the discussions separate I’m going to post them in separate blogs.)
Which comes first, FRC or FTC? No, this isn’t a question of value. It’s more of a chicken and the egg type question. Which happens more often? A FRC team is formed in an area and eventually FTC teams pop up, or a FTC team is formed and eventually one or more FRC teams develop in the area? Other than building an interactive map showing FRC & FTC team growth over time and space, (which we don’t have the time or manpower to do) we don’t have any easily accessible data to answer that question. So, what is your experience?
I’ll tally your answers Tuesday afternoon and get back to the group working on the long range plan.
Thank you.
131 days until Kickoff
See you then!
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15 comments:
Perhaps I’m showing my naiveté, but I think the goal of FTC was supposed to be the transition sport between FLL and FRC. If so, there’s still much work to be done. FLL is middle school, and both FTC and FRC teams are high school-aged. Few high schools (IMHO) can afford to do both FTC and FRC, which means the school will likely choose one or the other.
If you (the FIRST organization) really want a logical progression JFFL -> FLL -> FTC -> FRC, you need to change the definition of FTC. Call it a Jr. High School (grades 7-9) activity, so that school districts that have dedicated Jr. HS’s can have something to own. Otherwise you'll continue to have the overlap, and one program or the other will be slighted.
The school district that I attened my entire life and now mentor for has never had an FTC team. We started with a FRC team at the high school I attened, then working with local companies we are attempting to start FLL teams. Next year we hope to start an FTC team in our middle schools (Jr. High Schools). So in my experience FRC comes first.
I also agree with Mr.I, we need a logical progression (JFFL -> FLL -> FTC -> FRC. Other districts in my area had adapted and already have FTC teams in their Jr. High Schools and FRC in their High Schools.
Iowa has added 50+ FTC teams in the past couple of years, and I only know of one coach who has had any serious thoughts of starting an FRC team. Maybe that will start to change after all of these fledgling FTC teams gain a few years of experience. (I will definitely be here to encourage anybody that shows interest)
One thing to keep in mind is that when you're used to spending $10K-$40K on robotics, it doesn't seem too bad to spend another $2K for an FTC team. But if you're used to spending $2K a year, you're probably going to wince when you see the pricetag for FRC. I do think that Iowa can support a bunch more FRC teams, but because of the costs and challenges involved, it will take some convincing.
In Australia, FRC came first!
The data from regions with more than 5 years of FRC history are going to be skewed towards FRC building a community that fosters FTC development. In areas new to FIRST we may see both sides of this question.
San Antonio had 3 FRC teams for several years. Leadership from those teams developed into a FIRST senior mentor and the FTC and FLL affiliat partner which brought both programs to the region. Now that we have 30 plus FTC and 15 FRC we have seen 3 or 4 cases of FTC to FRC progression. We have also seen similar numbers of FRC teams adding one or more FTC teams as JV programs.
Our school started with an FTC team, then grew to 2 FTC teams and we now have 3 FTC teams. When the Utah FRC regional was formed we also began a FRC team. Our students enjoy doing both programs as the FTC season takes place for us before the FRC season begins.
We do not and will not have any FTC teams in the middle school because I am already stretched too thin.
In my region of Virginia FRC teams came first with very few FTC teams formed as of this date. When a FTC team is usally formed it is later, as a JV team to the FRC being the Varsity team. Also since most of our Middle (Jr HS) & High (Sr HS) schools have Technology Student Association (TSA) chapters, they get involved with VEX/VRC through TSA instead of FTC (for various reasons).
Our school, in Kansas City, started out with an FRC team. Two years later, we combined with another team in our district to make a district team. The district's plan now is to have each high school have a FTC Team (which hasn't happened yet) and then once you get good at FTC and have experience you move up to the one District FRC Team.
We started with an FRC team, then we encouraged the creation of FLL teams in our school district. Last year we started mentoring those teams. After four years of competing at the FRC level we will be starting an FTC team this year. The hope with our FTC team will be to transition students with FLL experience and also provide students with no FIRST experience a less daunting starting point.
My school started as an FTC team, and then progressed to FRC. We now use FTC as a preparation to the rookies on our team for FRC.
We started as a FTC last year and then received the NASA grant and started a FRC team (same students) I aggree with 7hom45 that FTC is good preparation for rookies. It is great for developing the team and learning how to work together as well as the strategy and design process. It would be better if FTC was always in the Fall and FRC was always in the Winter so there would not be any time conflict.
In my area I know of many FRC teams but not of one FTC team. I know that my team had 'popped out of the blue' 11 yrs ago when a parent showed the tournament to my school's physics teacher.
So FRC I would say is first.
In Sag Harbor (Pierson High School), FRCTeam28 started first. (no pun intended!) and just last year the school district funded a FTC team to feed into the FRC team.
Here in central Ohio, I don't think any schools do both FTC and FRC. In other areas with which I have experience, FRC has more often preceded FTC. My school is looking at the possibility of adding FTC, because we have an interested teacher and a ton of students in the FRC program. In my experience, FTC teams are a lot easier to start. But they don't engage students in the same way FRC does. The FRC program is simply put, a lot more exciting and pulls in more kids.
This is bit late, but just yesterday the Moonbots team of a few of our FRC team members won second place, which somehow gets them a free FTC registration, so it's looking very likely that we will have at least one FTC team this coming year. It seems to me, and now this is some evidence, that at least in areas like ours (Woodbury, MN) where the majority of the adult population is already in some STEM field and there is enough money to go around, the first thing to come to high schools is FRC. Then as support grows and more students become involved, either more than we can handle on single FRC team, or members are looking to do things in the offseason, the FTC teams crop up. However, I can see how this could be very different in a community where the rather steep entry cost of FRC is hard to come by so high schools start small with FTC.
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